Articles in this series

  • In defence of secularism

Larry Taylor is a Film Studies graduate from the East Midlands. He is currently unemployed but managing to pass the time constructively via his interest in history, politics, film, literature and useless trivia.

8 responses to “In defence of secularism”

  1. Stuart Taylor

    I have to disagree with the part of this article that stems from this:

    “What secularists do not call for is the complete abolition of the state religion. That would be atheism and a fairly militant atheism at that! Her speech reads as though she has consistently used the word secularist when she actually meant atheist.”

    I would say this was completely backwards. Secularists DO call for the abolition of state religion, or at least request that the state religion is more of a traditional role, rather than an interfering one (much like the Queen). Atheism specifically has NO position on anything but the existence of God. The ONLY thing you can say about any given atheist is that they do no believe in God; the terms ‘atheist’ carries with it no further positional values.

    As you elude to in the paragraphs preceding the above quote, secularists argue for the separation of church and state and the entanglement that exists within a ‘state church’ is exactly the kind of thing they object to.

  2. Vaughan Jones

    I agree with Stuart; secularists do call for the abolishment of “state religion”. That said, it is still a misrepresentation about what Atheism represents to suggest, as Baroness Warsi did, that there is agenda to rid the country of religion.

    Religion is a private matter. The only people who suggest otherwise are those with an agenda to keep it public for a host of reasons (prestige, power, money – the usual). They fail to consider that their some of their own religious books call for adherence to the faith but that it should be considered a matter for the individual.

    Atheism is simply the noise that someone makes in the presence of a person/group claiming to “know” that there is a god.

    1. Larry Taylor

      The bit about state religion was, I’m sorry to say, just a bit of clumsiness on my part. When I talked about “the complete abolition of the state religion” I only meant the religion in question, i.e. Christianity in the case of Britain. In other words, secularists do not seek the abolition of Christianity. I can see how my choice of wording could mislead. As for atheism, you’re right Vaughan, Warsi sees atheists as being on a mission to rid the country of religion but she doesn’t have the sense or honesty to say as much.

  3. Vaughan Jones

    I think we should all be slightly disturbed with the unelected representing Britain’s interests (or purporting to) when they have not been given a specific mandate to do so. Warsi is just one of many unelected politicians who have been given incredible levels of access to the government for no apparent reason.

    I was going to write an article for this on TNJ but as you had written on I decided not to in order to prevent saturation on the site. Part of my research would have argued that Christians in this country should refer to their holy book when discussing whether prayers should be included in government meetings:

    “Matthew 6:

    1 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
    2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
    5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”

    I think that says it all. No doubt there is another piece of scripture which contradicts this view. It would be in this contradiction that the problem of the Bible is revealed (should there be one). If not, then the argument is more compelling.

  4. Maureen Lancaster

    For me, as an atheist secularist, the most insulting thing about the whole religion/state discussion is the assertion that religion offers moral and social guidance. The implication here is that secularists and those of no religion are immoral amoral individuals who add nothing to the fabric of society. This is patently not true. It could actually be argued that to carry out charitable acts without the support or expectation of a church is actually a better thing to do. That type of act asks for no gratitude or expectation of a better afterlife.
    Religion is something that should be practised in private not something that children should be force feed as part of education nor something that should be part of governance. It is outrageous that Eric Pickles has changed the law so that prayers can be included in council meetings. This discriminates against secularists and surely must be challenged.

  5. Vaughan Jones

    “Religion is something that should be practised in private not something that children should be force feed as part of education nor something that should be part of governance.”

    I would have probably agreed with you a few months ago but my view has changed somewhat so, on that basis, I must point out what I feel is a false dichotomy.

    I feel is is perfectly acceptable for people to make their faith “public”. There is no reason for people to be hiding in their homes worshipping and fearing to step outside of the door. I agree with you; it has no place in the governance of any country.

    In education, this is slightly different. I think some of the more public Atheists accept a need for religion to be taught in its proper context. I personally think the proper context is in the History classes rather than specific Religious Education classes and I would picket any school in this country who proposes theology as a counterweight in the science classroom.

    You’re absolutely right to show indignation with the act of Eric Pickles. The High Court is there as an independent tribunal of the people in some respects. That Pickles has discarded this important role to serve the needs of piety in its most illiberal and divisive forms is a scandal which needs to be looked into immediately.

  6. OpinionSourcing: Baroness Warsi « Cubik's Rube

    [...] British Humanist Association Nelson Jones The New Journalist Mark Steel Crispian Jago Newsthump Crispian Jago [...]

  7. Robbert

    “I think I would be right in saying all atheists would support the disengagement of church and state, if only as a first step toward the eventual eradication of religion generally.”

    Well, I’m an atheist, and I don’t recognize myself in that description, to be honest. I do support the disengagement of church and state, but I don’t think it logically follows from me being an atheist. You don’t need to be an atheist to dismiss the notion of the few forcing their beliefs onto everybody. As you point out yourself, there are plenty of religious secularists around.

    As for the ‘eradication of religion generally’, that’s not something I’m looking for at all. Everybody’s perfectly free to believe whatever they like as far as I’m concerned, it’s just that I don’t, so as long as someone doesn’t try to push his or her religion into my face we’re gonna get along just fine.

Leave a Reply

* Copy this password:

* Type or paste password here:

7,548 Spam Comments Blocked so far by Spam Free Wordpress